Date: 5 Jan 1997 02:14:04 GMT From: JGELS Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards If we were not a reputable marine dealer, we could have made a fortune repairing outboards which came to us running poorly. However, many times we have run the motor on our gas tank, which uses only OMC TCWIII, and there is total improvement in the operation of the engine. When the customer walks out the door with a $20 gallon of oil instead of a $500 repair bill, he never again questions the price of his oil. Maybe Texaco knows oil but OMC knows outboards better than anyone else. Would you ask Texaco what products to use in your Ferrari? I think not. We were able to save a lot of the old outboards by getting the customers to switch to OMC oil. Those who were stubborn like a few of you guys here, lost their engines totally. I hope the original writer will seriously consider getting the OMC TCWIII oil. As we say- Pay me now or pay me a lot more later. Date: 5 Jan 1997 10:20:42 -0600 From: ref Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards In article <19970105021200.VAA07319@ladder01.news.aol.com>, JGELS wrote: >If we were not a reputable marine dealer, we could have made a fortune >repairing outboards which came to us running poorly. However, many times >we have run the motor on our gas tank, which uses only OMC TCWIII, and >there is total improvement in the operation of the engine. Again, we hear non-specific, anecdotal reports on the miracles of high-end TCW III oils. You say "total improvement in the operation of the engine." What the heck does that mean? Are you saying you run it on your OMCTCWIII tank, and you see this "total" improvement right there on the spot? What, exactly, do you see? I've switched back and forth between $20/gallon and $7/gallon TCWIII oils several times, running 10 to 50 hours on each, and I've never observed *any differences whatsoever* in starting, running, plug life, or any other performance indicators of *any* kind. None. Zero. Nana. ndicators of *any* kind. None. Zero. Nana. This reminds me of the old argument for oil additives for automobiles, like STP, Slick 50, etc. These purport to increase engine life enormously, like the infomercial where this motor's running at 5000RPM with "no water, no oil, and 10 pounds of sand in the engine. So, where are all of these cars? Where are all of these people with 300,000 miles on their cars, bragging about how they used SuperLoob? And what about the millions of people who *don't* use it? Why aren't their cars falling apart? My uncle put 250,000 miles on his old Chevy truck, and he didn't use that crap. He used the cheapest oil he could find, as long as it had a minimum grade stamp on it. Same with outboards. If less expensive TCW-III oils are so horrible, why aren't those tens of thousands of outboards using them falling apart? There must have been a couple of hundred articles posted on this subject saying the same old things: "it runs better," "it works better," it "has additives," and so on, but never anything specific. Ron **************** Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:01:59 GMT From: Spambots 'R Us Reply-To: noone@spambot.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards ref@bga.com (ref) wrote: >are all of these people with 300,000 miles on their cars, bragging about how >they used SuperLoob? And what about the millions of people who *don't* use it? >Why aren't their cars falling apart? My uncle put 250,000 miles on his old >Chevy truck, and he didn't use that crap. He used the cheapest oil he could >find, as long as it had a minimum grade stamp on it. Geez, Ron! Do you think we can market SuperLoob 5000++ TCW-3 oil to these gullible people for, say, $49.95/gallon? If we charge that much, they're SURE to buy it 'cause double the already double price MUST be BETTER! Er, ah, I agree with ya...I think carb jetting has more to do with all these wonderful deposits reported here than SouperLoob 5000++ does. > >Same with outboards. If less expensive TCW-III oils are so horrible, why aren't >those tens of thousands of outboards using them falling apart? > >There must have been a couple of hundred articles posted on this subject saying >the same old things: "it runs better," "it works better," it "has additives," >and so on, but never anything specific. > >Ron I really never got a straight, specific answer from OMC either....just generalizations like you'd hear on any STP commercial during a car race. I always thought it would run better if it had a couple of more rings on it. Larry > >Same with outboards. If less expensive TCW-III oils are so horrible, why aren't >those tens of thousands of outboards using them falling apart? > >There must have been a couple of hundred articles posted on this subject saying >the same old things: "it runs better," "it works better," it "has additives," >and so on, but never anything specific. > >Ron I really never got a straight, specific answer from OMC either....just generalizations like you'd hear on any STP commercial during a car race. I always thought it would run better if it had a couple of more rings on it. Larry ************************************** Date: 6 Jan 1997 22:46:04 EDT From: billgran@orbiter.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards Maybe when OMC reads this we can > find out how much actual lube oil is left or, more specifically, are > we talking about traces of 16 more chemicals? I researched the > American Petroleum Institute and oil chemical manufacturer's sites and > can't seem to find anyone with 16 chemicals to add to oil....most > interesting. More news later.............. .GIF at 11 > Larry. Larry, You have recieved posts from 2 other marine technicians who have first hand experience in results of using different types of oils. Now it's my turn. I tell my customers to use an engine manufacturer's oil since an engine company knows more what an engine requires than anyone else. Merc oil in a Yamaha, or OMC in a Suzuki, etc is OK. I find that off brand oils leave more carbon deposits and sometimes smoke more than factory oils. Do you think that Kentucky Fried will give you the formula for their 21 herbs and spices that make the chicken finger likkin' good ??? Why should any company give out their trade secrets that they spent a lot of research money on??? OMC uses two different companies to make their oil. The company's contract says that it connot sell oil with OMC's additive package,so the oil companies have to run their own tests and make their own oil that will pass TCW-III specs. Car motor oil is only about 75% base oil and the rest is additives for detergency, anti-foaming, anti-wear, etc. Each Company has their own perscription. Type III oil of any make is better than previous oils and they help many older engines, meaning older that 5 years. Most late models NEED type III to keep the warranty in force and to minimize carbon deposits and ring sticking. In fact the reformulations of gasoline brought about the need for type III oils. The new gas left more deposits that would stick the rings and score cylinders. ALL motor companies had this problem in the larger engines. Use whatever TCW III oil you want, but please don't bitch if you have excessive rust and carbon formations that may keep you engine from running at it's peak. I have customer's with over 2000 hours on their motors and still have top compression, no major problems, and no stuck rings. They use only OMC oil, 89 or 92 octane fuel, and have the required 100 hr. service performed on time. Hope this might help you out. Good luck Bill Grannis, service manager Bluewater Boats Inc. Daytona, Florida -- ** Orbiter Online -- Orbiter.Com -- http://WWW.Orbiter.Com ***************** Date: 11 Jan 1997 17:36:23 GMT From: WHPSI Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards Get real fellas.....If the can or bottle has the correct designation TC3 or 10w-40 or whatever...look at the fine print....MEETS OR EXCEEDS MFG'S REQUIREMENTS go for it....and yes Fram does make a fine filter...I use them on my mercruiser..be damned if I'm feeding the marina lion! Vic ***************************************** Date: 11 Jan 1997 14:56:26 -0600 From: ref Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards I have before me a jug of Walmart's "Tech 2000" TCW-III outboard motor oil. Reading right off the label: "Exceeds all warranty requirements..." "...superior quality..ashless..." "...exceeds requirements for NMMA designation TC-W3..." "...provides improved lubricity, engine cleanliness and protection against rust and corrosion...burns cleanly and keeps engines running cool while providing outstanding lubrication..." "Anti-gel formulation will not separate out or clog injector screens..." "...NMMA has assigned certification number TC-W3 3-42020 to this product." So, it's ashless, exceeds warranty requirements, exceeds TC-W3 classification requirements. Price? $6.97 per gallon. Anybody wanna tell me *why* this is supposed to be "bad for my engine"? Ron M. ************** Date: 10 Jan 1997 22:08:20 EDT From: billgran@orbiter.com Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards jgels@aol.com wrote: > > Hey, Bill. Are you guys in Florida getting all those huge margins on OMC > oil? Maybe all the dealers ought to start carrying the off brand oil. > Now we're talking huge margins. Let's see. The big discount on off brand > oil - the increase in repair business - and oh! don't forget the increase > in new motor sales!! Hi ! We sell bulk OMC typeIII oil ( bring your own container ) for $10.50 a gallon. In factory 1 gal. jugs, it's $14.50. We don't make much selling in bulk from a 55 gal. drum, but it brings people in our store and everyone loves a bargain. These oil discussions are as bad as the Ford verses Chevy and Merc Verses OMC arguments of years gone by. -- Bill Grannis, service manager Bluewater Boats Inc. Daytona, Florida ************************ Date: 13 Jan 1997 10:15:56 GMT From: SR 209 Newsgroups: rec.boats Subject: tcw-lll ASK LUBRIPLATE AND ALL THE OTHER MANUFACTURERS OF AFTER MARKET OIL HOW MANY ENGINES THEY REPAIRED OR REPLACED FOR THE CONSUMER. I'LL BET THE ANSWER IS ZERO. THE BURDEN IS ON THE CONSUMER TO PROVE THAT THE PRODUCT HE USED CAUSED HIS ENGINE /LOWER UNIT/OUTDRIVE FAILURE. ITS YOU AGAINST THE COMPANY.THEY WILL BE RELENTLESS. THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOBODY ELSES. R. NASELLO 1-12-97