TCW3 Oil rec.boats newsgroup postings #4
rec.boats newsgroup postings
"TCWIII Oil (for Outboards)"
17 Dec 1996 - 1 Jan 1997
Article 1
Subject: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: bob4boatin@aol.com (BOB4BOATIN)
Date: 1996/12/17
Message-Id: <19961217192000.OAA09964@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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I own a 1995 200HP Johnson Oceanrunner outboard and am having a problem
with the idea that I should spend twice as much for OMC TCWlll oil,than
what I pay for Lubrimatic TCWlll oil.Anyone have any thoughts on this
subject?
Article 2
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: spambot@useless.ads (Spambots 'R Us)
Date: 1996/12/17
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bob4boatin@aol.com (BOB4BOATIN) wrote:
>I own a 1995 200HP Johnson Oceanrunner outboard and am having a problem
>with the idea that I should spend twice as much for OMC TCWlll oil,than
>what I pay for Lubrimatic TCWlll oil.Anyone have any thoughts on this
>subject?
Wanna bet there's no difference? I been using Lubrimatic from WalMart
and it works just fine. I think the big difference is probably the
200% dealer markup. OMC is NOT an oil company. They sell overpriced
motors. I'm sure, just like SG-CD oil, most all of this is industry
regulated by the API who rates all this anyways. The rest is sales
hype and advertising. The Lubrimatic runs fine....at least THEY are
an oil company. Wanna bet OMC buys theirs from the lowest bidder
offering the highest profit margin??
Article 3
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: Gary Polson
Date: 1996/12/20
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On 18 Dec 1996, BOB4BOATIN wrote:
> jorg, OMC dealers price their oil like they do their Extended warranty
> 100% over wholesale.
This oil topic comes up every now and then. We (RBBI) took the
liberty the last few times (July 95, Feb 96, Apr 96) to record
the Rec.boats oil chat and post it on our site for the manufacturers.
Thought if we "stuck their nose in it" like a bad doggie they
might get a clue.
The info is still posted there (I think you can judge if they
got a clue or not)
There are about 60 messages there
Recreational Boat Building Industry Home Page
http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi
On the main page about 2/3 of the way down there
are a bunch of "manila folders" pick the one
labeled "rec.boats newsgroup"
It provides a sort of FAQ on the two stroke
oil questions and pricing as well as some
editorial comments from us to the manufacturers.
Gary Polson
RBBI
Article 4
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: "Charles W. Stewart Jr."
Date: 1996/12/20
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BOB4BOATIN wrote:
>
> I own a 1995 200HP Johnson Oceanrunner outboard and am having a problem
> with the idea that I should spend twice as much for OMC TCWlll oil,than
> what I pay for Lubrimatic TCWlll oil.Anyone have any thoughts on this
> subject?Powerboat Reports did an article a while back which said that all "brand
name" (Texaco, Quicksilver, OMC, etc.) TCWIII oils protected the engines
equally. They didn't see any reason to spend the extra money for the engine
manufacturers oil. Since I only use ~6 quarts a year, I use OMC oil for my
Johnson outboard. If I had a 200 hp Johnson, I would consider using a
cheaper oil like Texaco.
Chip
Article 5
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: acesrve1@aol.com (ACESRVE1)
Date: 1996/12/28
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Would you believe LUBRIMATIC and QUICKSILVER TCW-3 are the same? Yes.
The same batch is just bottled for the different companies under their
individual brand. I know this from my many years as a Mercury factory
test boat owner. It's their "dirty little secret". The marine engine
manufacturers do not make oil. They buy it from Lubrimatic,for one,which
is a KENDALL Company. Call Kendall and ask.
Article 6
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: spambot@useless.ads (Spambots 'R Us)
Date: 1996/12/28
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acesrve1@aol.com (ACESRVE1) wrote:
>Would you believe LUBRIMATIC and QUICKSILVER TCW-3 are the same? Yes.
>The same batch is just bottled for the different companies under their
>individual brand. I know this from my many years as a Mercury factory
>test boat owner. It's their "dirty little secret". The marine engine
>manufacturers do not make oil. They buy it from Lubrimatic,for one,which
>is a KENDALL Company. Call Kendall and ask.
And WalMart has the best price. Overpaying for TCW-3 is stupid! No
engine manufacturer makes "better" TCW-3 oil! Like Sears, and others,
they put out bids to see how cheap they can buy oil with the rating
and the lowest bidder gets the nod. They'd be stupid to do anything
else....after all....It only HAS to run until we're out of the
warrantee period, doesn't it?
Believe it or not, selling oil for 1/2 price at Wally World DOESN'T
make it work 1/2 as much, either. This stupid idea of paying double
at a boat dealer for some imagined "quality" never ceases to amaze me,
no matter which engine manufacturer pretties it up with his logo.
Larry
Article 7
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: jkrueger@wwa.com (Jeff Krueger)
Date: 1996/12/30
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In article <32c51882.503058@news.mindspring.com>,
spambot@useless.ads (Spambots 'R Us) wrote:
>acesrve1@aol.com (ACESRVE1) wrote:
>
>>Would you believe LUBRIMATIC and QUICKSILVER TCW-3 are the same? ...
>And WalMart has the best price. ...
>
>Believe it or not, selling oil for 1/2 price at Wally World DOESN'T
>make it work 1/2 as much, either. This stupid idea of paying double
>at a boat dealer for some imagined "quality" never ceases to amaze me,
>no matter which engine manufacturer pretties it up with his logo.
>
>Larry
Actually, there is a difference between different brands of TCW 3 oil. For
example, OMC has additional additives over and above the minimum requirements
needed to get the TCW 3 certification. These additives are put in to increase
engine life by reducing carbon and wear.
You get what you pay for.. the lower the price the lower the quality.....
----------
Jeff Krueger
jkrueger@wwa.com
Article 8
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
jkrueger@wwa.com (Jeff Krueger) wrote:
>Actually, there is a difference between different brands of TCW 3 oil. For
>example, OMC has additional additives over and above the minimum
requirements
>needed to get the TCW 3 certification. ...
SPECIFICALLY, what are these "additives". Why would OMC want to
extend life of the engine past the warrantee? Why would ANY
manufacturer make a motor to "last longer". Hogwash. That's why
they're made out of pot metal! If OMC wanted you to have "longer
life", you'd have a stainless steel foot on that outdrive...Hogwash.
I stand by what I say, OMC is buying TCW-3 oil from the lowest bidder,
just like all the rest. I called Lubriplate and talked to a very nice
man in sales. He told me, "We make TCW-3 oil for many boat
manufacturers." He would not tell me who, though. He also said the
oil was all the same coming from the same plants. WallyWorld
Lubriplate comes off the same cracking plant as SooperDooper at
$45/gallon.
Larry
Article 9
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: Ray Cloud
Date: 1996/12/30
Message-Id: <32C82442.7088@seldon.terminus.com>
References: <19961217192000.OAA09964@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961228022400.VAA29836@ladder01.news.aol.com> <32c51882.503058@news.mindspring.com> <5a7bcn$5vi@kirin.wwa.com> <32c7cb83.2078307@news.mindspring.com>
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Spambots 'R Us wrote:
>
> jkrueger@wwa.com (Jeff Krueger) wrote:
>
> >Actually, there is a difference between different brands of TCW 3 oil. ...
> >Jeff Krueger
> >jkrueger@wwa.com
>
> SPECIFICALLY, what are these "additives". ...
> Larry
Sorry to interupt here, but I have been using OMC/Merc oil, and am
appaleed at the price but even more appalled by the price of a new
engine. It sure would be great to get factual confirmation that
Lubrimatic is the same as either OMC or Merc.
JMTCW, Ray
Article 10
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: pmaszak@aol.com (PMaszak)
Date: 1996/12/30
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All oils are not created equal. One very important point is that if an
engine (yours) suffers catastrophic failure, It is not any of the oil
companies or any of the X-marts that sold it too you that will honor your
warranty. All Outboard builders have Technical representatives that
ultimately decide warranty claims.
Your claim can be denied if engine failure is caused by inferior oil that
has gelled or provided adequate lubrication. ..............Phil
Article 11
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: garry@holly.ho.att.com (1329C1000-Garry_Heon(MT4084)NOBIN)
Date: 1996/12/31
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In article <19961230224600.RAA20817@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
PMaszak wrote:
>All oils are not created equal. One very important point is that if an
>engine (yours) suffers catastrophic failure, It is not any of the oil
>companies or any of the X-marts that sold it too you that will honor your
>warranty. All Outboard builders have Technical representatives that
>ultimately decide warranty claims.
>Your claim can be denied if engine failure is caused by inferior oil that
>has gelled or provided adequate lubrication. ..............Phil
Only if that oil fails to meet the spec the manufacturer publishes like
TCW-III.
Garry Heon
First Stepp
garry@holly.mt.lucent.com
Article 12
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: spambot@useless.ads (Spambots 'R Us)
Date: 1997/01/01
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garry@holly.ho.att.com (1329C1000-Garry_Heon(MT4084)NOBIN) wrote:
>In article <19961230224600.RAA20817@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>PMaszak wrote:
>>All oils are not created equal. One very important point is that if an
>>engine (yours) suffers catastrophic failure, It is not any of the oil
>>companies or any of the X-marts that sold it too you that will honor your
>>warranty. All Outboard builders have Technical representatives that
>>ultimately decide warranty claims.
Speaking of Xmarts, I stopped by Kmart today and looked in the auto
oil department. There was Genuine Texaco TCW-3 for $5.99/gallon!
Think Texaco knows anything about the oil business or shall I go to my
Johnson dealer's OMC who-know-who oil company? You OMC lovers should
also check out Kmart for your TCW-II oils. They have the Genuine OMC
oil CHEEP! Gallons and poplid cans in sixpacks. Kmart is also now
stocking GENUINE Mercury Marine Quicksilver blue TCW-3 oils in the
squatty gallon jugs. Do you all think these OEM oils will be 1/2 as
effective at 1/2 the boat dealer price?? It's like buying wholesale.
BTW, wait a week for the Summerville Kmart to restock the Texaco. I
could only buy up the 8 gallons on the shelf. Guy said he'd make sure
there was more on the truck next week....(c;
$18-20/gallon.....LIKE HELL!
Larry
Article 13
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: klinger@ccu.umaitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger)
Date: 1996/12/18
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In article <32b72ee7.872648@news.mindspring.com>, noone@spambot.com wrote:
> Wanna bet there's no difference? I been using Lubrimatic from WalMart
> and it works just fine. ...
What's the recommended ratio of this Lubrimatic? Is this Amzoil stuff
also TCWIII?
I know someone who is running this oil at 100:1 and swears by it. I'd try
it to get rid of some smoke but would like to hear some other users
comments before I bet my motor on any oil at 100:1.
Jorg
Article 14
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: spambot@useless.ads (Spambots 'R Us)
Date: 1996/12/18
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klinger@ccu.umaitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger) wrote:
> What's the recommended ratio of this Lubrimatic? Is this Amzoil stuff
>also TCWIII?
>I know someone who is running this oil at 100:1 and swears by it. I'd try
>it to get rid of some smoke but would like to hear some other users
>comments before I bet my motor on any oil at 100:1.
> Jorg
As TCW3 is a standard of the oil industry, all TCW3 must meet this
standard before it's stamped on the bottle. I would ONLY run the
ratio recommended by the manufacturer. 100:1 is AWFUL thin. It
doesn't smoke but it doesn't lubricate much either. I'd MUCH rather
have a long running smoker myself than a seized up clean burner.
Larry
Article 15
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: bellm@mail.med.upenn.edu (Marcus G Bell)
Date: 1996/12/19
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Spambots 'R Us (spambot@useless.ads) wrote:
: klinger@ccu.umaitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger) wrote:
: As TCW3 is a standard of the oil industry, all TCW3 must meet this
: standard before it's stamped on the bottle. I would ONLY run the
: ratio recommended by the manufacturer. 100:1 is AWFUL thin. It
: doesn't smoke but it doesn't lubricate much either. I'd MUCH rather
: have a long running smoker myself than a seized up clean burner.
Just to clarify, when you say "recommended by the manufacturer",
you're talking about the manufacturer of the MOTOR.
Just because the jug of oil says it can run at 100:1 doesn't mean
100:1 is the right amount of oil for your outboard. Countless motors
have been KILLED by running without enough oil.
No outboard manufacturer, and almost no oil manufacturer will say that
it's OK to use less oil than the motor manufacturer originally
specified at the time the motor was made. One exception is AMSOIL, who
says their products can be used in any outboard 1960 or newer at
100:1, but withold any comment about motors prior to 1960. Since
AMSOIL could not have reasonably tested every model of outboard made
since 1960, some of which were designed to run on 16:1, 24:1, 50:1,
etc., there's a good chance they're making claims based on testing a
select sample. Folks who say that running their old 16:1 motors at
100:1 with Amsoil has caused no problems generally do not put many
hours on their motors (like 5 per year), nor have they taken
micrometer measurements of any critical tolerances to make any
scientific determination of how much wear has occured. So, they just
know the problems havent become obvious yet.
Nope, I'd go with the original instructions that came with the motor,
regardless of what the oil jug says.
Marcus. ( bellm@mail.med.upenn.edu )
Article 16
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: bob4boatin@aol.com (BOB4BOATIN)
Date: 1996/12/18
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jorg, OMC dealers price their oil like they do their Extended warranty
100% over wholesale.$1450.00 to customer $725.00 to the dealer. I just
read on boating mag site that Amsoil is used at 100-1 if you mix it.If
your engine has vro just fill tank as usual.Dont know price of it but
synthetic oil is usually fairly pricey.Getting back to TCWlll I think I'm
leaning towards using OMC oil buying it in bulk in my container,if I only
could get over my distrust of most marine dealers.who knows what they are
putting in those 50 gal.drums.
BOB
Article 17
Date: 29 Dec 96 11:20:35
From: Dave Brown
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
All oils are not created equal, period. First of all, the rating TCW-III
represents a MINUMUM standard for the oil to meet the certification.
Secondly, when a manufacturer submits their oil to be tested under this
certification, there is absolutely no follow-up done to ensure that the oil
that is produced a day from now or a year from now still makes the grade.
Third, OEM's add specific ingredients to cambat problems specific to their
engines for various reasons. For example, OMC 90 degree V blocks have a
tendancy to get stuck rings using the newer automotive fuel (the reasons for
which will be supplied if requested). Originally, OMC reccomended using
Engine Tuner every 50 to 100 hours to clean it out. Then they invented that
nifty staff called Carbon Guard which you add to your gas to prevent the
build-up in the first place. Now, it's part of OMC's TCW-III and I guarantee
you that Wal-Mart oil does not contain it. This is just one example of how
the oils are different -- there are many others.
The bottom line? If you think that discount crap is the same as the OEM
The bottom line? If you think that discount crap is the same as the OEM
stuff, please keep using it (remember the Fram oil filter commercial?). For
me, the price differential for a year's supply is peanuts compared to the
operating costs of the vessel and I've noticed that boaters who fancy
themselves to be frugal, often end up spending more to operate their boat
than 'that sucker' who pays for OEM parts and accessories.
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina
Article 18
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
From: spambot@useless.ads (Spambots 'R Us)
Date: 1996/12/30
Message-Id: <32c7ccc0.2395224@news.mindspring.com>
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Dave.Brown@typecast.crp.kingston.on.ca (Dave Brown) wrote:
>All oils are not created equal, period. First of all, the rating TCW-III
>represents a MINUMUM standard for the oil to meet the certification.
>Secondly, when a manufacturer submits their oil to be tested under this
>certification, there is absolutely no follow-up done to ensure that the oil
>that is produced a day from now or a year from now still makes the grade.
>Third, OEM's add specific ingredients to cambat problems specific to their
>engines for various reasons. For example, OMC 90 degree V blocks have a
>tendancy to get stuck rings using the newer automotive fuel (the reasons for
>which will be supplied if requested). Originally, OMC reccomended using
>Engine Tuner every 50 to 100 hours to clean it out. Then they invented that
>nifty staff called Carbon Guard which you add to your gas to prevent the
>build-up in the first place. Now, it's part of OMC's TCW-III and I guarantee
>you that Wal-Mart oil does not contain it. This is just one example of how
>the oils are different -- there are many others.
Geez, it's time to change motor manufacturers! If OMC is having these
problems and has to go to mechanic-in-a-can to fix their crappy
motors, maybe you need to think about another motor company! I'd hate
to think I had to put $20 in fuel...then $15 in special oils,
additives, and pretty bottled saving-miracle-fluids in a motor just to
keep the cheap construction from disintegrating. Come on....
>
>The bottom line? If you think that discount crap is the same as the OEM
>stuff, please keep using it (remember the Fram oil filter commercial?). For
>me, the price differential for a year's supply is peanuts compared to the
>operating costs of the vessel and I've noticed that boaters who fancy
>themselves to be frugal, often end up spending more to operate their boat
>than 'that sucker' who pays for OEM parts and accessories.
WallyWorld sells Frams....much cheaper. Fram must have a special line
for WallyWorld's filters that leaves out the paper. Things at
WallyWorld, like Frams, cost 1/2 because Brown's Marina buys 1 case at
a time, from some middle man. WallyWorld goes to Fram and says, how
much if I buy 480,000 cases this month and 560,000 cases next month??
Fram's salesman, dreaming about his promotion to executive VP from
being the guy who cemented down the "WallyWorld Deal-of-the-Century",
whips out the iron-clad contract for 1/2 what your wholesale is!
WallyWorld sends their fleet of trucks to pick 'em up, the plant runs
3 shifts, Mikey makes VP. THAT's why WallyWorld is cheaper.
> Dave Brown
> Brown's Marina
>
So, How much does OMC SooperDooper TCW-3 sell for on the dock at
Brown's Marina? Do we get a newsgroup discount if we buy by the case?
Article 19
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:46:12 -0500
From: John Harlow
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
> Third, OEM's add specific ingredients to cambat problems specific to their
> engines for various reasons. For example, OMC 90 degree V blocks have a
> tendancy to get stuck rings using the newer automotive fuel (the reasons
>for which will be supplied if requested).
I'm requesting. Why does ordinary fuel seek out OMC 90 degree outboards to
stick rings? Why are
the non-V engines immune?
Article 20
Date: 30 Dec 96 21:55:21
From: Dave Brown
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
-> The room fell silent as spambot@useless.ads whispered to All...
sp> Geez, it's time to change motor manufacturers! If OMC is having these
sp> problems and has to go to mechanic-in-a-can to fix their crappy
sp> motors, maybe you need to think about another motor company! I'd hate
sp> to think I had to put $20 in fuel...then $15 in special oils,
sp> additives, and pretty bottled saving-miracle-fluids in a motor just to
sp> keep the cheap construction from disintegrating. Come on....
Well Larry, I'd just love to spend hours typing responses to your drivel
about what you think you know about outboards, but I haven't the time nor the
desire to spar with yet another tech wannabe. I do what I can to try and
disseminate fact from fiction in this newsgroup (which could be a full time
job in itself) but I trust that enough readers will make decisions based on
supported information and gradually tune the likes of you out.
The arguments about which brand is better started back when Thor and his
buddy each designed and built their own wheel and I'm quite sure that your
input, no matter how significant *you* think it might be, will add nothing
new to the centuries old arguments. I've spent the better part of my life
fixing marine engines and have a great deal of respect for all the current
motor manufacturers. Like all manufactured things in this world, sometimes
the maker gets it right and sometimes they get it wrong. The fact that marine
engines must rely on automotive fuels and therefore counteract it with
additives for use in two strokes, does not diminish their quality and, in
fact, demonstrates their commitment to the product already in the field.
sp> WallyWorld sells Frams....much cheaper. Fram must have a special line
sp> for WallyWorld's filters that leaves out the paper.
As I suspected you would, you missed the Fram analogy altogether. Suffice to
say that if Wal-Mart were selling OMC or Quicksilver oil (if they were
allowed to), it would not be the same price as the Wal-Mart TCW-III because
it isn't the same oil.
sp> Things at
sp> WallyWorld, like Frams, cost 1/2 because Brown's Marina buys 1 case at
sp> a time, from some middle man. WallyWorld goes to Fram and says, how
sp> much if I buy 480,000 cases this month and 560,000 cases next month??
sp> Fram's salesman, dreaming about his promotion to executive VP from
sp> being the guy who cemented down the "WallyWorld Deal-of-the-Century",
sp> whips out the iron-clad contract for 1/2 what your wholesale is!
sp> WallyWorld sends their fleet of trucks to pick 'em up, the plant runs
sp> 3 shifts, Mikey makes VP. THAT's why WallyWorld is cheaper.
Wow! Thanks, Larry. You have that uncanny ability to take the incredibly
obvious and, well, errrrr, state it! Of course, the fact that this
shortsightedness might well put your friendly local marina out of business
(and therefore unable to service those tough service problems that the
Internet/Wal-Mart can't solve for you) seems to have been lost on you. For
your information, I buy all of my supplies through buying groups which
provide the same discounts that Wal-Mart gets. The big difference is that I
have access to OEM parts and accessories and choose to stock and sell them
instead. In Canada, my biggest competition does not come from Wal-Mart, but
from a national chain called Canadian Tire and I have no problem matching and
often beating their prices so your argument is moot. Otherwise, I'd be
retired now with nothing to do but complain about how much money *you* make
doing your job. BTW, Larry, what *do* you do for a living so I can return
some of the incoming crap you're throwing my way?
sp> So, How much does OMC SooperDooper TCW-3 sell for on the dock at
sp> Brown's Marina? Do we get a newsgroup discount if we buy by the case?
Remembering that the exchange between the US & Cdn dollar fluctuates daily,
and that we're metric up here, I'll try and do a quick conversion and see how
it turns out: A quart of OMC-TCW III works out to about $3.50 US. I have
access to (but choose not to sell) non-OEM brands that would obviously sell
for less. I always encourage my customers to buy in volume and pass along the
savings to them. Gallon, 2.5 gallon, 5 gallon, and 45 gallon quantities are
available with substantial reductions offered for increased volumes. Most
customers buy the 2.5 gallon size which seems to last for the season. I do
not recommend anyone buy outside their geographic region. Warranty/buy-
locally issues aside, there's no reason why you couldn't find someone nearby
who will give reasonable prices without the hassles of
shipping/exchange/customs etc. I provide information only in the interest of
fostering better information in this newsgroup.
Getting back to the original thread, I disassembled countless two stroke
engines and can tell you that even *you* could tell the difference between
one that's been running OEM and one that's been running no-name. Like I said
before, I personally don't care which oil you use, it makes no difference
whatsoever to me. You should ask yourself this question though, if I have
nothing to gain (financially or otherwise) from recommending OEM oils, why
would I do so unless it were true?
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina
Article 21
From: Dave Brown
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
-> The room fell silent as spambot@useless.ads whispered to All...
sp> I stand by what I say, OMC is buying TCW-3 oil from the lowest bidder,
sp> just like all the rest I called Lubriplate and talked to a very nice
sp> man in sales. He told me, "We make TCW-3 oil for many boat
sp> manufacturers." He would not tell me who, though. He also said the
sp> oil was all the same coming from the same plants. WallyWorld
sp> Lubriplate comes off the same cracking plant as SooperDooper at
sp> $45/gallon.
Here's an eye opener for you then Larry. Call your friend back and ask him
if any of the OEM oils they manufacture have different formulations and ask
him if they're allowed to sell that same formulation under their Lubrimatic
name. If he's honest, you'll find he admits that while OMC/Merc/Yamaha/etc
all buy & sell TCW-III oils, each has its own formulations and that
Lubrimatic is under license to manufacture and bottle it for them. Under the
terms of this license, they can't manufacture and re-label it for any one
else (including themselves). OMC's oil was not manufactured by Lubrimatic
last year so that leaves one OEM off your list to deduce who they're making
it for.
Try this next year to see if it doesn't prove my point with another oil. Buy
OMC's Hi-Vis gear oil and a bottle of Lubrimatic's equivalent. Squirt some
on your fingers and compare the feel. Smell it. Run it in you lower unit for
50 hours and compare it. If you *still* think it's the same stuff, you should
be extra careful when operating heavy machinery.
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina
Article 22
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:15:41 GMT
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
Dave.Brown@typecast.crp.kingston.on.ca (Dave Brown) wrote:
>Here's an eye opener for you then Larry. Call your friend back and ask him
>if any of the OEM oils they manufacture have different formulations and ask
>him if they're allowed to sell that same formulation under their Lubrimatic
>name. ...
Ok, went to Wally World yesterday to get the numbers and would like to
post them here. WalMart's own brand at about $6.50/gallon has the
NMMA's own TCW-3 registration number of 3-42020. There was a
$16.50/gallon Itasca brand synthetic oil also there from a company
called Specialty Oils, 2740 Valley View Dr, Shreveport, LA 71148 with
an NMMA registration number of #3-74020. These were stocked with the
oils in the auto department, for some stupid reason known only to the
marketing Phds. Over in boat stuff, LubriMatic's (about $6.29/gallon)
had an NMMA registration number of 3-32030.
I'm researching the web for NMMA's data today, if I get the time.
Interested parties please help the searching. Mr Brown, please post
the actual NMMA registration numbers on all the oils you sell for us
so we won't have to run all over town visiting boat dealers finding
them. It's TOO DANGEROUS going into boat dealers and marine supply
places, we all end up with a truckload of goodies every time we go.
You can save us all lots of money by just posting the
numbers...Please?
I'm not interested in a flame war with you, in spite of your insults.
I think it would be very interesting to just know the real truth. I
couldn't find Specialty Oils on the net, so have mailed them snailmail
asking them for SPECIFIC information on who they provide TCW-3 oil to.
It will be interesting if they reply. There was no telephone number
on the bottles, I guess I could call Louisiana information. Maybe
later.
Let's all try to remain civil, just for a change. No need to explode
Let's all try to remain civil, just for a change. No need to explode
with useless innuendo just because someone disagrees with your point
of view. Thanks.
Larry
Article 23
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:05:59 GMT
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
Wow! I went searching for information and found them WATCHING US!
Take your magic box to:
http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi/folders/recb/recb.htm#oil
You'll find what "they" are saying about "US"!
It seems we are being very carefully watched, or at least were when
this webpage was put up, to promote these grossly overpriced 2-stroke
oils from the OEM's. Please read carefully what the feather merchants
think about us. Note no references are EVER made to the real truth
about our interests in the REAL differences in the oil, just how the
marketing hypes are working....pity.
marketing hypes are working....pity.
Go to the page!
I have left email to the NMMA's hired web page company to ask about
why these pages have not materialized. www.nmma.org is a real domain
name, but returns nothing in 10 minutes when my browser is left on it.
This usually happens when no main page is stored on a registered
domain. Wonder why NMMA isn't heavy-time into internet infobot
advertising? Seems awful strange....????
Larry
POST ANYTHING YOU SEE!...THANKS!
Article 24
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:27:35 -0800
From: Gary Polson
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Spambots 'R Us wrote:
> Wow! I went searching for information and found them WATCHING US!
>
> Take your magic box to:
>
> http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi/folders/recb/recb.htm#oil
>
> You'll find what "they" are saying about "US"!
>....
Woah!!!
I'm Gary Polson and I webmaster the RBBI site your are
discussing. I'm on the end users side on this one.
If you will read my comments at the top of that page
I am telling the manufacturers they need to be able to
prove their oils are better and justify the higher price.
They need to have documented tests showing increased
performance and tell you why in order to demand premium
pricing.
I put a post in this newsgroup when this thread started
again a couple of weeks ago and pointed the site out and
told you I had "tried to rub their noses in it like
a bad dog".
Anyway come by and see the posts on this issue in the past.
You can go to the address above or just come in the front
door.
http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi
and look for the rec.boats Folder.
You are very welcome to visit the site and we are trying to
encourage online participation between the manufacturers and
end users.
Yes I am "watching you" but I am trying to help you by
pulling out specific messages the manufactures should be
paying attention to and calling them to their attention.
In real life, few of them are even seeing them on my site,
none of them (US mfg) are making concerted efforts to see
them in the newsgroup because they have to sift them out from
all the other messages. We try to make it a little easier
for them to see the messages. We are seeing the most interest
all the other messages. We try to make it a little easier
for them to see the messages. We are seeing the most interest
and participation from foreign manufacturers.
Gary Polson
RBBI
http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi
Article 25
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 00:47:50 GMT
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
Gary Polson wrote:
>Woah!!!
>I'm Gary Polson and I webmaster the RBBI site your are
>discussing. I'm on the end users side on this one.
>If you will read my comments at the top of that page
>I am telling the manufacturers they need to be able to
>prove their oils are better and justify the higher price.
>They need to have documented tests showing increased
>performance and tell you why in order to demand premium
>pricing.
Geez, Gary. RBBI looked like some kind of manufacturer society! I
thought I'd gotten a sneak look in OMC's secret dealer web sites.
Does anyone know the dealer 6 digit number and zip code we can use to
get into these secrets at OMC? Sure would like to look at the recall
lists, techie data, problem children we mere mortals aren't allowed to
see under the pretty-pretty fluff.
Larry
Article 26
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 00:41:29 GMT
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
garry@holly.ho.att.com (1329C1000-Garry_Heon(MT4084)NOBIN) wrote:
>In article <19961230224600.RAA20817@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>PMaszak wrote:
>>All oils are not created equal. One very important point is that if an
>>engine (yours) suffers catastrophic failure, It is not any of the oil
>>companies or any of the X-marts that sold it too you that will honor your
>>warranty. All Outboard builders have Technical representatives that
>>ultimately decide warranty claims.
Speaking of Xmarts, I stopped by Kmart today and looked in the auto
oil department. There was Genuine Texaco TCW-3 for $5.99/gallon!
Think Texaco knows anything about the oil business or shall I go to my
Johnson dealer's OMC who-know-who oil company? You OMC lovers should
also check out Kmart for your TCW-II oils. They have the Genuine OMC
Johnson dealer's OMC who-know-who oil company? You OMC lovers should
also check out Kmart for your TCW-II oils. They have the Genuine OMC
oil CHEEP! Gallons and poplid cans in sixpacks. Kmart is also now
stocking GENUINE Mercury Marine Quicksilver blue TCW-3 oils in the
squatty gallon jugs. Do you all think these OEM oils will be 1/2 as
effective at 1/2 the boat dealer price?? It's like buying wholesale.
BTW, wait a week for the Summerville Kmart to restock the Texaco. I
could only buy up the 8 gallons on the shelf. Guy said he'd make sure
there was more on the truck next week....(c;
$18-20/gallon.....LIKE HELL!
Larry
Article 27
Date: 31 Dec 1996 22:30:59 GMT
From: BOB4BOATIN
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
I'm the one that started this latest thread on outboard oil and as of this
date there are at least 19 responses. At that site called virtualpet there
are at least 60 more posted from 3 previous threads.With all these
comments by most well meaning folks I still cannot make up my mind on
whether or not the OEM brands are giving us the old business or not.
I think I'm leaning towards using the OMC oil if I can find a dealer that
I can trust. Somwhere along the way I read that OMC TCW-2 oil was colored
blue and OMC TCW-3 oil was red. Then I read that one fellow got purple oil
from his dealer. He pointed out that blue and red make purple. So, I was
wondering if we could at least have a color we could depend on, I would
feel a lot better about purchasing OMC oil in bulk for a little more money
than the Lubrimatic. Just to be on safe side in case the Pro OEM folks are
correct.
Any comments on this sure would be appreciated.
Bob
Article 28
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 00:45:10 GMT
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
bob4boatin@aol.com (BOB4BOATIN) wrote:
>I'm the one that started this latest thread on outboard oil and as of this
>date there are at least 19 responses. At that site called virtualpet there
>are at least 60 more posted from 3 previous threads.With all these
>comments by most well meaning folks I still cannot make up my mind on
>whether or not the OEM brands are giving us the old business or not....
All the TCW-3 I ever got was blue. Relax, you're in luck! Kmart
today had OMC TCW-II oil in gallons and poplid cans CHEAP! They also
had Mercury Marine Quicksilver TCW-3 at $6/gallon and Genuine Texaco
TCW-3 for $5.99/gallon! Why pay more? Do you think OEM oils are 1/2
as effective at 1/2 the price? Just DON'T TELL THE DAMNED BOAT where
you got it. I bought Kmart outa Texaco. I figure Texaco KNOWS
Oil...it's their big business! No answers from the big boys yet....
$18-20/gallon....LIKE HELL!!
Larry
Article 29
Date: 1 Jan 1997 08:30:41 -0600
From: ref
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
>They need to have documented tests showing increased
>performance and tell you why in order to demand premium
>pricing.
*This* is what we'd all like to see, instead of all these honchos just
saying "this is better" or "that is better" off the tops of their heads.
Maybe a boating or saltwater fishing magazine could run a test that would
go something like:
1. Three twin-engine boats.
2. On each boat, one engine uses manufacturer's oil, the other the
$6-a-gallon
stuff from XMart. Both TCW-III, of course. Running them on twin-engine
rigs would ensure that both motors operated under identical conditions.
3. After X number of running hours, take the heads off the motors and look
for differences.
Heck, you could do it with ONE boat. I'm not sure, though, that these
magazines would have the guts to run a test that might cost their biggest advertisers
millions of dollars in profits from oil sales. Maybe a resourceful private
individual could run the test on his own boat and put the results on a web
page, or perhaps a company who makes the cheaper oil could do it.
One thing for sure, though, it would get a *lot* of attention!
Ron
Article 30
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 22:39:07 GMT
From: Spambots 'R Us
Reply-To: noone@spambot.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: TCWlll oil for Outboards
ref@bga.com (ref) wrote:
>>They need to have documented tests showing increased
>>performance and tell you why in order to demand premium
>>pricing.
>
>*This* is what we'd all like to see, instead of all these honchos just
>saying "this is better" or "that is better" off the tops of their heads.
This would be a great idea! What I would REALLY like to see is a good
Consumer's Reports TCW-3 test. This would eliminate all the bribery
associated with your favorite sport boat mags. You know, the company
picking the mag execs up in a limo full of whores for a night on the
town just BEFORE giving them an order for $50K in new ads for next
month. We ALL know those tests in boat mags would be REAL objective.
Consumer's Reports would really smoke that oil over, so to speak.
We'd even find out who was telling the truth, for a change.
I got an answer from OMC's spinmeisters today...I post it here
unedited for your perusal....:
Date sent: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:21:23 -0600
From: Skip Hegel
Organization: outboard marine corporation
To: Larry Butler
Copies to: jkrueger@omc-online.com
Subject: Re: Your TCW-3 Oil - info please
Larry Butler wrote:
>
> Can you tell me what oil company or companies OMC buys it's TCW-3 oil
> from? Can you supply me with real test data done by OMC and tell me what
> additional additives are used to make OMC oil so special? We are trying
> to determine which brands, if any, are actually better for our 2-stroke
> motors than others.
>
> Thank you in advance for your email response. I still have an Elto 1hp
> outboard that runs just fine...(c;
> Larry kn4im@mindspring.com
> Charleston, SCLarry,
OMC oil is the test oil used for BIA testing. It is a high grade oil
with 16 chemical additives used to clean and further protect the
engine.
Most all name brand TCW3 oil (base) is similar but it is the expensive
chemical additive formula that set the OMC oil appart. We could leave
out many of the chemicals and lower the price while increasing profit
but we would also run the risk of increased engine wear. This we elect
not to do.
OMC purchases base oil stock from major suppliers and has our
exclusive formula added. Remember, to be TCW3 certified you only
have to pass the minimum BIA test. You do not have to add additional
chemicals or be the top grade. OMC meets the highest standard
and continues to set the standard for the top grade TCW3 outboard oil.
Thanks for asking:
Skip Hegel
OMC ONLINE
Editors notes:
Notice all the SPECIFIC information as to the manufacturers names,
SPECIFIC standards, etc. Ok, now can anyone name 16 chemical
additives added to 2-stroke oil ABOVE what is already added to "major
suppliers" stock oils? Think hard! After reading this, I was
wondering...If we have "major suppliers" already TCW-3 oils, add in 16
more kinds of chemicals to it, HOW MUCH LUBE OIL CAN BE LEFT to save
my engine!!?? There MUST be 50% "additional chemicals" in there! At
some point, the oil will be so diluted there'll be almost no oil left!
I'm still chewing on this statement. Maybe when OMC reads this we can
find out how much actual lube oil is left or, more specifically, are
we talking about traces of 16 more chemicals? I researched the
American Petroleum Institute and oil chemical manufacturer's sites and
can't seem to find anyone with 16 chemicals to add to oil....most
interesting. More news later.............. .GIF at 11
Larry.
Life was much simpler bumming SAE 30 off my grandfather to add to the
tractor gas I got from his farm tank to put in my Elto 1HP from the
QUART jug I used to take fishing......(sigh) I still got the Elto, it
still uses SAE 30 mixed tractor gas 40 years later...runs fine.
..(c; Is this progress??
